their depositions, and to take of his Majesty had been disthem in that form which was graced in the discharge of his suitable to the practice of our duty, because he had looked jurisprudence, and surrounded into facts, which materially afwith all those safeguards by fected, the honour, and dignity which our law was characterized. of the Crown; and he had also, It was necessary, therefore, to he trusted, repelled any insinudelay any motion of the nature ation that had been thrown out of that now before the House, against Mr. Cooke, or against because, to understand the ques- the eminent solicitor who action well, the gallant general companied him, and who had ought to see the depositions, assisted in taking those deposiexamine their forms, and ob- tions. As to the expences of the ; serve the safeguards by which commission, no deposition exthey were surrounded. If he isted to withhold from the House had seen them, he would pro- all the information that was nebably feel that no censure at- cessary, when the proper motached to those who superin-ment arrived. There would be tended them. Every thing was a want, of delicacy in obtruding done to guard those who were it, on the House at present; examined from stating any mat- but when the proper time ar ter on hearsay every thing was rived it would not be concealed. done to guard them against The expences incidental to the speaking unadvisedly every parties who were sent abroad thing was done that could make must be brought before the them dismiss from their minds House on the same ground that the hope of receiving any emo- the House would be called on lument in consequence of their to defray the sum necessary for testimony; and they were in-her Majesty in entering on her formed that their characters defence. The expence attendwould be examined in some ing the allegations on the one competent court of law. (Hear.) side, and the preparations for He was convinced that no indi-meeting them on the other, vidual could be selected better would be laid before Parliament adapted to fulfil the duties that in due time. As he had before were intrusted to him than this said, ministers wished for no gentleman; and he was quite mystery with respect to any sure, that with respect to the part of this transaction. But he necessary safeguards, no depo- did protest solemnly against this sitions had ever been more mode of introducing partial mostrictly drawn up. He believed tions, for it exhibited the air of that those who had seen the a mere party proceeding much proceedings in this case, had more than it did that of a real viewed them with no other desire to forward the ends of feeling but that of the greatest justice. (Hear, hear.) Indiarespect for those who conducted viduals would not wait for the them. He hoped he had re-proper moment to argue those pelled the idea that any servant questions; they ran unprepared

into the midst of a most impor-ed, which, he must say, was tant subject, and dragged it rather dictated by political feelanto view, not at once, but ing than by a strong regard for piécemoal. (Hear, hear.) They the principles of justice. (Heur) did not take a plain and intelli-Owing to this system, he was gible course, but came forward | compelled to give a garbled and in a way the most invidious, broken explanation to the House, both with respect to the pro-and to defend the character of ceeding itself, and with reference individuals less fully and less to private character. (Hear, forcibly than he would bể enahear.){ // Would it not be better bled to do if he had an opporfor gentlemen to restrain their tunity of discussing the whole Teehngs until they saw the question. He would not negawhole proceeding-what regu-tive this motion, but he would lation had been adopted, and meet it with the previous queswhat proceedings ministers bad tion, to shew that the informaomitted? If, when that was tion should not have been called done, ministers could not explain for; and he hoped it would be themselves to the satisfaction of a sort of warning to gentlemen the House, then would come on the other side, (hear, hear,) the time to encounter the ani- not to let their zeal get the madversions of gentlemen. But, better of their understanding, in at that moment, he protested submitting motions to the House against investigating a transac-under circumstances like the tion of this nature. He would present. (Hear, hear,) Let not consent, when a charge was the subject rest until the whole brought against the Queen, that case was brought forward; and it should be set aside, and that let not the House and the ministers should be placed on country be lowered in the eyes their trial, with reference to of Europe, which they would be some collateral circumstances if it were seen that, when a (Hear.) He would not wrap great question, important to the himself up in mystery as to this Crown and the empire, was transaction; but, at the fair and agitated, they could not deal proper moment, he would give with it fairly, but must meet it all the information in his power. by little motions of this kind, In the mean time, he thought he (hear, hear,) in order to get did not ask too much of the some unfair advantage over House, when they had suspend-ministers, as if they were on ed their opinion with respect their trial. (Hear, hear, hear.) to the proceeding itself, also to He asked for no favourhe suspend their opinion with re-shrank from no responsibility. speet to the conduct of ministers. All he claimed was, that the (Hear.) He felt it necessary conduct of ministers should be to make this appeal, because he fairly and strictly examined, was dragged into partial ex-when the circumstances were planations on this subject, in before the House, when they consequence of the course adopt- would have an opportunity to

1306

1305

July 15, 1920.

explain themselves fally; he lawyers, attornies, and spies, only protested against these re-assisted by the Emperor of peated anticipations of explana- Austria, through every part of tion. (Hear.) His lordship Europe. This indeed was quite It was danconcluded by moving the pre-novel system. vious question—"That this ques-gerous when any responsible tion be now put."servant of the Crown was placed

|

Mr. CREEVEY, notwithstand at the head of such a proceeding he might incur the displea-ing; it was much more dansure of the noble lord; and not-gerous when a person like Mr. withstanding the protest and Leach-he begged his pardon, the warning the noble lord had he should have said Sir John given to the House, would Leach--who was not a responmaintain that the proposition of sible servant of the Crown, orhis gallant friend was a per-ganized a system of espionage fectly just one; and the time against any individual of this precisely that in which the mo- country; but it was still worse tion ought to have been made. when a person, placed in the His gallant friend had not pre- situation of that gentleman, incipitated his motion; he had flamed the feelings of particular delayed it till a certain proceed-persons by stating to them things ing took place in the other of a doubtful nature, but which House of Parliament. So ano-were calculated strongly to exmalous a course was, perhaps, cite their passions. (Pear, never pursued upon any former hear.) They had a right, he occasions The Queen of this contended, to, have this Vicecountry was criminally proceed- Chancellor before them. (A He would maintain ed against; and how? By the introduction of a bill, in which that he was a disturber of the - she was called by the most in- public peace of this country. famous and scandalous names. (Hrar, keur, and order.) He Neither her Majesty nor; that would shew how he was a` disHouse had any information on turber of the public peace. In the subject; and, under these 1814, all the unhappy differcircumstances, his gallant friend ences between his Majesty and said, what he conceived to be the Queen were supposed to be most proper, "Let me see settled: an arrangement with the foundation of this mea-respect to money matters took sure; if you make a-charge of place; and his Majesty's minithis nature, let me see your in-sters negociated with her for fernal Milan commission, or leaving the country. It was whatever.commission it may be, quite impossible that the noble on whose statement it is found-lord opposite, or the right hoed." It was quite a novelty, a nourable gentleman, (Mr. Canthing hitherto unknown to the uing), considering the feelings constitution of this country, for he had expressed towards, the the King to authorize a commis-Queen, could have again swaksion to bunt a subject with ened those differences which

laugh.)

were thought to have expired. Her first crime was having Who then had done it? It was placed her foot on the English the Vice-Chancellor who had shore, and her next, a determikept alive the vindictive feelings nation not to leave it. This of his Majesty towards the Vice-Chancellor was again anQueen. (Order, order.) He swerable to the House for his was not out of order: he would conduct on this point, because contend that it was the Vice- they were called on to assist in Chancellor who had kept alive the utter subversion of the law the vindictive passions of the of this country, and to adopt a King against the Queen. (Or- completely anomalous proceedder, order.) If the feeling were ing in consequence of his conduct. not vindictive, he did not know Secret evidence had been taken what the word "vindictive" by a secret commission; and, meant. Several years ago the after a period of twelve months Queen was prosecuted; she left had elapsed, it was laid before the country after a long ab- the Lords, who, without any sence she came back, and now examination of witnesses, had she was prosecuted again. If finally adopted certain charges this were not vindictive, he did against the Queen. A bill was not know what was. But now then brought in for the purpose for the result of this commission. of degrading her. If this were By the aid of his confederates allowed, if a bill of this nature the Emperor of Austria, Italian were suffered to pass into a law, spies, English lawyers, and Eng- he contended that the laws of lish money he contrived to this country would be totally have this bag filled and brought subverted, and no man in the over. It was clear, however, kingdom would be safe. They that it was not wanted: it had had a right to know who the been in the possession of minis-author of this measure was. ters of the Crown for these That individual was answerable twelve months, and they had to the House in another point of never made any use of it. This view, perhaps as important as showed that they considered its those he had mentioned:-he contents as of a private nature, was answerable as the enemy and not as state evidence against of the Sovereign; for no man the Queen. If they thought could tell what situation the otherwise, why did they not King might be placed in before persecute her at once? Instead that bill passed. Whatever of doing that, they negociated ministers might state, this was with her at St. Omers, and in a mere private charge: it was this country; and it appeared on the King wanting to get rid of the journals of the House that the Queen. Ministers knew the business was in fact a family there was no crime cognizable difference. But the Queen, it by law, and therefore they appeared, would not consent to sought to relieve him by bill. the propositions made to her. He must then appear as a priThat was her crime at present. vate individual when he came

1

The previous question was carried, so that, the account which General Ferguson moved for was refused.

HIS MAJESTY'S MESSAGE. Lord CASTLEREAGH rose, pursuant to notice, to postpone the order of the day for taking his Majesty's message into consideration. Before he proceeded to that question, he wished to make a few observations on what had fallen from an honourable gentleman who had recently addressed the House.

to Parliament for relief; and the laws of the land, but would when he came before that shake the steady, sober, moral House to be released from his habits of the people. (Hear, wife, he must come like all per-hear.) Looking to the case in sons applying for relief to a every point of view, there was, Court of equity-with clean in his opinion, an absolute nehands. (Order, order.) He cessity for the production of this owed all this to Sir John Leach. Milan commission, in order that (Order, order.) When a case they might properly know the of that nature came before them, author of these unfortunate cirthey must use the words of Jesus cumstances. Christ when the woman was taken in adultery-" Let him that hath no sin cast the first stone." It was, as he before observed, the Vice-Chancellor who had placed the King in this situation. They were told that there must be no recrimination in this case. He knew that no such word was allowed in a court of justice; but, as he had before stated, when his Majesty applied to that House, he must come with clean hands. The bill declared her Majesty to be guilty of adultery; and when that measure came before the He knew not how far the orHouse, it would be their duty der of the House would suffer to inquire whether, when the an individual to go when (as Princess of Brunswick, the cousin we understood) he was deterof his Majesty, came to this mined to transgress the bounds country to espouse him, he was of decency. (Hear, hear.) But not himself then living in adul- certainly, in this case, the hon. tery. (Order, order.) Of this member had uttered sentiments he was sure, that the King had which would not be suffered been placed in his present situa- where the feeling of private tion by the officious adviser to individuals were concerned, and whom he had alluded. He saw which never should have been the proceeding with pain and used in speaking of the characregret from the beginning; and ter of the Sovereign. (Hear.) when the message came down He protested solemnly, in the he warned the House of the face of the House and of the situation in which it would place country, against the speech the country, because he was cer- which the honourable member tain that the course adopted on had made that night. No indithis occasion, that of proceedingvidual was warranted in makby bill, would not only overturning such assertions—no indivi