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The "coincidence" is that these identical words which Gurth, the swineherd in Ivanhoe, is a are to be found in Limbird's Mirror, Feb., 1824, representative. ALEXANDER PATERSON. vol. iii. p. 120. Barnsley. Noting this one insignificant instance in the whole range of Dickens literature, I think the world may be challenged to produce another. HARRY SANDARS.

Oxford.

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QUARTERINGS OF HUNT OF ASHOVER AND ASTON.-The following quartered coat of the Derbyshire family of Hunt is given in Harl. MSS. 1093, 5809, and in Egerton MS. 996, and it also appears, though wrongly tinctured, on a monument in the church of Aston-on-Trent -1, Arg., a bugle sa., on a chief gu. three mullets pierced of the field; 2, Sa., a chevron ermine between three escallops arg.; 3, Az., a chevron gu. between three crescents or; 4, Arg., a greyhound courant sa., collared or. The first is the coat of Hunt, but I shall be glad to have the others identified. The pedigrees given in the above MSS. do not go back far enough to give the marriage or marriages by which they were gained. There is also in Aston Church an altar tomb with two effigies (which I take to be temp. Henry VI.) having the second and third of these quarterings on the sides. I have hitherto quite failed to identify it, and shall be grateful for any assistance. It seems certain that the owner of quartering No. 2 left an heiress holding property at Aston, which passed by marriage to Hunt. I have consulted Papworth's Armorial, but with no avail, for the family of Farewell of Somerset, or Farway of Devon, seems to have had no connexion with Derbyshire. Chevin House, Belper. THOMAS KARR.-In the late Dr. Doran's in

J. CHARLES Cox.

These lines the herds were in the habit of representing by means of notches cut upon their whip-teresting volume, Knights and their Days, there is handles, thus:

I II III V I I IIII II II III XI I

The above suggested to me a similar doggerel used by the cowherds of Aberdeenshire, with which I was familiar about thirty years ago. The lines, which I give in the broad Doric of the county, run as follows:

"Twa afore ane, three afore five,

First twa an' than twa, an' four come belive ; Noo ane an' than ane, and three at a cast, Double ane an' twice twa, an' Jockie at the last, An' Jenny an' her five kye followin' on fast." The notches were arranged as under, a rude figure of Jockey occupying the place of the asterisk and a ditto of Jenny that of the dagger :

II I III IIIII II II IIII I I III X II II (*) IIIII (†) The two seem to be but different versions of one original, and being met with among the same class of persons, in districts of the country lying so wide apart as Kent and Aberdeenshire, it seems pretty evident that they date from a very remote period. Has any reader of "N. & Q." met with similar lines in other districts of the country? Or can any one hazard an opinion as to their origin? I am inclined to think that they are of Saxon origin, and that they might be traced back to the class of

a chapter on Jacques de Lelaing, and at p. 231 mention is made of an English knight, Thomas Karr, who contended with him. As on p. 219 there is a reference to original sources, I shall be glad to have a reference to the same. The contest was in 1449, at Bruges. Now, in that year Thomas Karr was appointed to some office by King Henry VI., and in 1454 he was made Groom of the Robes to Henry VI.,† just after Jacques de Lelaing's death. In 1479 a Thomas Karr, of Newton j. M., in Northumberland, died, Northumbrian Karrs or Carrs, as Lancastrians Since the leaving an heir forty years old. returning, received grants from Henry VII., it seems not unlikely that this Thomas Karr may be the one mentioned in Knights and their Days, but in his inq. p.m. he is not a knight, which seems fatal to his being the man. Any other particulars, or reference to any original records, will oblige.

C.

THE DELABRE OR DELABERE FAMILY.-Can

any of your readers give me information respecting *Memoranda Palatii Regis.

† Ordinances for the Regulation of the King's Household, Hardy.

the Delabre or Delabere family and their crest? A branch of this family, I believe, lived at Cheltenham, where some house property bears their name. LADYBIRD.

Cheshunt.

"LES ANGLOIS S'AMUSAIENT TRISTEMENT SELON LE COUTUME DE LEUR PAYS."-It is more than five years, I believe, since this most slippery of quotations last appeared in your pages. It has completely baffled several contributors to " N. & Q.," myself included. It seems to be pretty well settled that it is not in Froissart, Monstrelet, Sully, or Comines. It is very strange that every attempt to find the quotation should result in total defeat. The amusing part of the affair is that if you ask any one where the phrase is he is almost sure to reply, In Froissart; but if you follow up your query by another, Whereabouts in Froissart? he is, in the vernacular of the immortal Mr. Weller, "dumb as a drum with a hole in it." Can any of your more recent readers or contributors come to the rescue, and set the matter at rest for ever? JONATHAN BOUCHIER.

Undercliff House, Ventnor, I.W.

[See 4th S. i. 398; viii. 276; x. 409.]

"LING." I should feel very much indebted to any of your correspondents who would kindly enlighten me as to the origin and derivation of the word ling as applied to a small back yard or garden in a country town. Of course I have always known of ling as synonymous with gorse, but I never heard of a ling till I met with the word the other day in a somewhat out-of-the-way part of East Sussex, when a hairdresser, to whom I had resorted for professional assistance, excused himself for having kept me waiting on the ground that he had been "busy watering the plants in his ling." The hairdresser, though evidently a man of more than ordinary education and culture, was unable to give me any explanation of the term; in fact, judging from the expression of his countenance, I should say that he was considerably astonished at my ignorance. A. DUKE.

ALBERT DÜRER'S BOOK ON FORTIFICATION.Geliche underricht zu Befestigung der Stadt, Schloss und Flecken, Nuremberg, 1527. Could you kindly tell me where a sight of this book might be ob tained? It is not in the British Museum or in the library of the London Institution.

HELENA CAROLINE BOWER.

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Ecce salvtifervn signvm, thav norile lignvm
Vita serpens hic ænevs alter erat
Venditvs hic io8th pro vili nvnere ionas.
Qvi tridvo ceti corpose ciavsvs erat
Hic salientis aqvæ fons namapeira sacerdog.
Agnvs qvi occisvs thipirl prreis erat
Agnvs et occisvs primæva ab origine mvndi
Crimina qui lavit sanggne nostea svo.

O qram ivdæi meditantvr inania mylta Et gentes manibvs quam frenvere svis I capvt at toilvnt hi rident hi maledicvnt Nvis dvt dvi rro tvnica ivdere forte voivnt Est qvi cor tenervm crvafn percutit hasta Est qvi vvlt matnam tolifpe felle sitim Mater ato mater lachrvnis compvncta labasit. Seo mvliebre gdvin datn mvlieris opem. The inscription was regilt many years since, and some of the words bear distinct traces of being corrupted in restoration. Underneath are the arms and mottoes of the Tresham family. Can any of your readers supply me with the correct version of the inscription? JOHN TAYLOR. Northampton.

KING WILLIAM III.-Wanted-1. Any account of the illegitimate offspring of King William III. and their descendants. 2. Galloway, Lord Dunkeld.-Who is the present representative of this nobleman, attainted and exiled for his participation with Lord Dundee in the battle of KillieX. C.

crankie?

SPINNING TERMS.

"She straight slipp'd off the wall and band,
And laid aside her lucks and twitches.'
Bloomfield, Richard and Kate.

What is the meaning of "wall" and "band" and
"twitches"? They all seem like "lucks," which
is explained in Halliwell to be a term used in
spinning.
T. LEWIS O. DAVIES.

Pear Tree Vicarage, Southampton.

THE QUEEN'S TITLE.-A petition to the queen SNOXUNS.-In the Forest of Dean foxgloves are from the Isle of Man is addressed as follows:- called "snoxuns." Is this a local name, or is it "To Her Most Excellent Majesty in Council, known in other counties than Gloucestershire? Victoria the First, Queen of the United King-"A went a-buz'n away like a dumbley dory in a dom of Great Britain and Ireland" (Train's Hist. snoxun," is a phrase by which the Forest folk of the Isle of Man, vol. ii. appendix to cap. sometimes express their opinion of a humdrum xxiii. p. 377). Is not this a peculiar instance of preacher.

X. P. D.

MILBURNE, FRIEND OF HORROX.-I wish for India that there never was a case of a grandchild information respecting the person of this name of English who were born in India, so that the mentioned in vol. ii. p. 154 of Whewell's History English race ceases to reproduce after the second of the Inductive Sciences in these words: "Mil-generation. What truth is there in this? burne, another friend of Horrox, who like him DR. VAN DER KEMP. detected the errors of Lansberg's Astronomical Tables, left papers on this subject, which were lost by the coming of the Scotch army into THOMAS DOBSON, M.A. England in 1639."

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PINS.-We have in my parish a village undertaker, who told me, a few days since, that during a flood he asked one of our tenant farmers to allow a corpse to be carried to the churchyard

across his fields in order to avoid the water. The
farmer hesitated, from the prevailing notion that
this would constitute a right of way; but his
objection was overruled by the following queer
reply. The undertaker promised to stick half-a-
dozen black pins in the gate-post of the meadow
through which the funeral cortège passed. He
tells me he himself "did so, and thus the path was
not made common." Can any correspondent of
"N. & Q." furnish a similar example? Without
doubt the pins were a fee paid for the privilege, an
acknowledgment that the right of way was granted
by favour on this special occasion; but still it
struck me
as a strange proceeding worthy of
record. It also suggests another query. Does a
funeral passage give a public right of way by law or
custom? The undertaker I refer to insists that it
does. The same undertaker tells me that the pins
employed on a corpse for any purpose are never
used again, but are always deposited in the coffin
and buried with the dead body.

Lavant.

E. COBHAM BREWER.

[* Intending correspondents as to this point will do well to first consult the papers at the following references: "Funerals and Highways," 4th S. xi. 213, 285, 374, 433; xii. 96, 158.]

WAKES IN CHESHIRE.-Can any one tell me what is the origin of these wakes? They are held twice a year and at different times in each township. They always begin on Sunday, and last throughout the week. Much of this time is spent in visiting friends and in merry-making. In one township with which I am acquainted they begin on the first Sunday after July 10 and on the first Sunday after October 10.

W. M. B.

THE ENGLISH IN INDIA.—I heard it asserted the other evening by a gentleman long resident in

51, Boulevard Eugène, Neuilly (Seine). "KING BY YOUR LEAVE."-What child's game was this in Shakspere's days? Baret, in his Aluearie, 1580, has "King by your leaue, a play that children vse, not vnknowen. Apodidrascinda."

F. J. F.

CHRISTMAS GAME OF TWENTY.-What does it mean? Is it described anywhere? C. A. WARD.

Mayfair.

MAUDE OF SINGLESIDE.-Can you throw any light on the pedigree of the family of Maude of Singleside, Newcastle, supposed to be descended from Queen Matilda of Flanders, wife of William the Conqueror?

VICAR.

ORIGINAL REFERENCES WANTED.-1. The story in which the German "evolved the camel from the depths of his inner consciousness." 2. The fable in which the poultry, on being asked with what sauce they would like to be eaten, reply that they would rather not be killed at all, and are met by the oft-quoted "Vous vous écartez de la question.” GREYSTEIL.

BALDWINS, COUNTS OF FLANDERS.-Is it known who were the wives of the third, fourth, and fifth Baldwins, Counts of Flanders? Also the wives of the first two Arnouls, Counts of Flanders? The first two Baldwins married Judith of France and Elfrith of England. I should be obliged by any information as to these Countesses of Flanders. RICHARD H. T. GURNEY.

Northrepps Hall, Norwich.

Replies.

KIT'S COTY HOUSE.
(5th S. ix. 427.)

I do not attempt to answer DR. MACKAY'S query, but I think I can suggest some curious matter for consideration in relation to it.

At Gaer Llwyd, about half way between Chepstow and Usk, is a cromlech-I believe the only one in Monmouthshire-the origin of which is thus accounted for by popular tradition. "Once upon a time," which may be taken to mean in the heroic ages of Gwent, there lived one Twm Sion Catti, who was on more familiar terms than a Christian gentleman (if he was one) ought to have been with his Satanic Majesty, with whom he one day engaged in a friendly game of quoits. It seems to have been a trial as much of strength as accuracy

of aim, for the quoits consisted of the stones which now form the cromlech. A believing imagination points out the steps by which each cast was matched by another as good, until on Twm Sion Catti throwing a stone which literally capped them all, and now measures upwards of twelve feet by four, his adversary gave in. Now, as there was a Twm Sion Catti who flourished in historic times-a kind of Welsh Robin Hood of the period of Queen Elizabeth-we must suppose that tradition, with its usual readiness to group all marvellous actions around one popular hero, has confounded his name with an earlier one associated with the cromlech.

The origin of the names of prehistoric landmarks and remains is enveloped in considerable obscurity, but adherence to a few plain rules will generally afford some clue to guide us out of the labyrinth. It is tolerably certain that the names, when and by whomsoever given, must have had a meaning at the time; and this can only be ascertained by reference to the language spoken by the people who conferred them. On this plain and self-evident principle DR. MACKAY'S derivation from the Gaelic is quite untenable. Gaelic was never spoken in South Britain. We might just as well derive Kit's Coty House from Arabic or Chinese.

We have palpable evidence of the former existence of a Cymric population in England in the names of most of the rivers and mountains and other prominent natural objects, and in many of the names of places. This is not so much the case with constructive works: Stonehenge, Avebury, Silbury, though prehistoric constructions, have Saxon names. It would therefore be natural in the first instance to inquire if Kit's Coty House can be explained in Anglo-Saxon or English. I am afraid that no intelligible sense can be ex

And here arises the connexion, or possible connexion, of the subject with the name of Kit's Coty House, one of the derivations of which, in books of too little authority to quote here, is given as the Celtic coeten a quoit. În Roberts's Cambrian Popular Antiquities, p. 214, a story is told of giants playing at quoits on Crug Mawr, a lofty hill in Cardiganshire, when one of them threw his quoit clear into the Irish shore; and in Brayley's Graphic and Historical Illustrator, p. 208, there is figured a cromlech near Newport, Pembroke-tracted out of it. A.-S. cote, cot, coty, is the Cymric shire, called Coeton-Arthur, or Arthur's Quoit. Nor are these stories of gigantic quoit-throwers in connexion with primæval monuments confined to Wales, for in Collinson's History of Somerset, ii. 432, in speaking of the circle at Stanton Drew, particular mention is made of an immense stone called Hautville's Quoit, by tradition reported to have been thrown hither by that gigantic champion Sir John Hautville, from his place of abode at Mays-Knolle-Hill, upwards of a mile

distant.

I am bound to add that I have no knowledge of the Welsh language, and on referring to Dr. Owen Pugh's Welsh-English Dictionary, first edition, I do not find any such word as coeten, meaning a quoit. But, whether there be such a word or not, our English quoit or coit is near enough in form to support the derivation if there be sufficient foundation for it in fact. Without going into questions of philology, its connexion with the verb coit throw, and the primitive use of a flat stone as a discus instead of the modern flattened iron ring, is sufficiently obvious. Bishop Corbet's Iter Boreale (p. 179 of Mr. Gilchrist's edition of the Poems, 1807) has a very similar word in the sense of a flat gravestone:

"Nothing but earth to earth, no pompeous waight Upon him, but a pibble or a quaite." Perhaps some of your other correspondents can furnish additional instances of cromlechs connected with traditions of supernatural quoit-playing, the names of which may suggest a still closer connexion with that of Kit's Coty House.

Hardwick House, Chepstow,

J. F. MARSH.

cut, pl. cyttiau, a hut or hovel. The name would then simply mean "Kit's hovels," like Wayland Smith's cave in Berkshire. This may be so; but if we can find in the Cymric tongue words of similar sound with an appropriate meaning it will at least afford room for speculation.

The cromlech-a term common to Gaelic and Cymric-has a synonym in Cymric cist-vaen, "stone chest." Besides these, there occur in connexion with many archaic remains hut villages, consisting of collections of circular low walls, supposed to have been habitations. These in Welsh are called Cyttiau. There may have been such in the neighbourhood of Kit's Coty House. Cistcyttiau (pronounced Kist-cuttiau) is remarkably near the modern English appellation. Again, if we take the name to be Saxon or English, Kit's Coty or Kit's hovel would be sufficient: why is the superfluous word "house" added?

I do not pretend that this explanation is perfectly convincing. It is at all events plausible. I would say to any one who doubts

"Si quid novisti rectius istis Candidus imperti; si non, his utere mecum." J. A. PICTON.

Sandyknowe, Wavertree.

In Fergusson's Rude Stone Monuments, p. 173, with reference to the stone of Cetti, mentioned in the Welsh triads, or Arthur's stone in Gower, the author observes in a foot-note:-"Is this the same word as Cotty,' as applied to Kit's Cotty-house in Kent? It looks very like it-Coity?" He deems this relic to be the tomb of Catigren, A.D. 455, being similar to the tombs at Minning Low Hill, in Derbyshire, p. 143. CHR. COOKE,

a figure, formed partly of ears of corn and adorned
with ribbons, is set on the top of the last load of
wheat, and is called the Ben. This is undoubtedly
the Ir. and Gael. bean (bena), pron. ben, a female
(or lady, for it is a term of honour); W. ben-en,
a young female; Corn. ben-on. This may seem to
favour DR. MACKAY'S supposition that arnack may
be of Keltic origin; but the root ar, in the Keltic
languages, means only to plough, or till, the ground.
It is not used in connexion with any harvest work,
and in this respect corresponds with the O.E. ear,
to plough, A.-S. er-ian, O.H.G. er-an and ar-an.
J. D.
Belsize Square.

MACKAY. Here the custom is styled "calling the
A similar custom in Cornwall may help DR.
neck." The day on which the last of the wheat is
cut is the one observed. A sheaf is taken and
decorated with flowers; then, when the day's work
is over, all the labourers assemble. One with the
loudest voice takes the neck and calls out, "I have
im," three times. A second answers, "What have
ye?" three times. He is answered, "A neck,
a neck, a neck," when the whole assembly give
This ceremony is gone through

A DEVONSHIRE CUSTOM (5th S. ix. 306.)-The words nack, arnack, and wehaven, to which DR. MACKAY has recently called the attention of readers of "N. & Q.," are perhaps capable of a different explanation from the one given by that gentleman. The term nack seems clearly to be another form of a root which appears in the modern literary dialect of Scandinavia as neg, and signifies, like its Devonshire parallel, a sheaf of corn. To the word ahnack or arnack I have not been able to discover an analogous term in Danish. It appears to my mind to be a compound word, to which the term nack already explained forms a component. What, then, is the meaning of the first syllable of the word ah-nack? We find in Danish the word ax, an ear of corn, and it is possible that in the syllable ah we find a modified form of this substantive. The root ac may first have lost its sibilant and become ach (the combination ch being pronounced gutturally), and the form ach have been ultimately softened down to ah, the letter h of the word still retaining a slight guttural sound. Ax-neg (did such a compound exist in modern Danish) would mean a sheaf of ears of corn," and this is a very appropriate significa-three cheers. tion for the word ahnack uttered by a Devonshire three times, after which, in accordance with old reaper at harvest time. The term wehaven does custom, all the men retire to supper in the farmnot present so much difficulty when its explana-house. tion is sought. It is another form of the Norse adjective velhavende (weal-having), prosperous, opulent. The pronunciation of the Devonshire word seems to indicate that it is a compound, stress being laid, as Mrs. Bray has remarked, on both its first and second syllables. This, therefore, adds strength to the conjecture that we-haven is but another form of velhavende. The exclamation "ahnack wehaven" I therefore take to be the expression of a wish for a bounteous harvest, or (to render the words literally) "rich sheaves of ears of corn," and to be a linguistic relic, recalling the period of the ancient Danish settlement in our island. NICOLAI C. SCHOU, Jun.

Chorlton-cum-Hardy.

DR. MACKAY is in error, I think, in referring arnack to a Keltic source. Mrs. Bray says that the Devonshire reapers tie together some ears of corn, and that it (the bunch) is called the nack. This is the Prov. Dan. knak, Sw. knäk, Germ. knocken, Low Sax. knagge, a round mass or heap, a knob, a bunch. In the Lower Saxon, aar or are is the form in which the Germ. Aehre and our own ear (of corn) appear in a more ancient type. The O.H.G. form is ahir and the Goth. ahs. Ar-nack means a bunch of ears of corn, and wehaven is simply "we have it." The ceremony is interesting because it is certainly a relic of an old heathen custom, whether Teutonic or Keltic in its origin, by which honour was paid to the goddess, corresponding to the Lat. Ceres, who presided over the fruits of the earth. In the Eastern counties

Falmouth.

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E. D.

'Carrying the neck" is a good old custom which has not yet died out from, at any rate, North Devon. Only last year I heard it said that on such a farm they had “carried the neck a Tuesday backalong," meaning that the harvest was finished.. It is a good many years since I heard or saw the performance, but I seem to remember the words as having been, "A neck, a neck, es have en": we have it. I remember, too, a local explanation of why these ears of corn were called a neck: "They 'm taied up under the chin laike." Are not ears of corn of which the straw is partly broken, so that they hang down, said to be necked?

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T. F. R.

The last handful of wheat which is cut is usually held up by the reapers in triumph, and when tied together in a fantastic way like a crown is called the neck-why I know not, but in pure Devon it would be pronounced a nack. Wehaven is also Devonian for we have it," shouted triumphantly by all in the field, as the cry of the joy in harvest that the_work is done. The custom is not peculiar to Devon, though the pronunciation is. It is probably universal. The neck is afterwards generally suspended in the farmer's kitchen as an ornament till the next season. DEVONIAN.

WHIMSICAL PARLIAMENTARY EPITOMES (5th S. ix. 385.)—The assumption of A. R. that the whim

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